Johnson says previous comments about fake electors were 'slightly wrong'
OSHKOSH, Wis. (CBS 58) -- Sen. Ron Johnson said Friday claims he made earlier in the week about Democrats having used fake slates of presidential electors were "slightly wrong," but defended the bulk of his comments.
During an interview with CNN Monday night, Johnson was asked whether he supported Bob Spindell continuing as a state elections commissioner after his involvement as one of 10 Republicans who signed on as fake electors for Donald Trump in 2020.
"There have been alternate slates of electors by Democrats in our history," Johnson said. "Again, that wasn't what this interview was gonna be about. I'll come and provide you the information."
Johnson's team then posted to social media four previous responses Democrats had to presidential elections. Three of those examples involved some Democrats attempting to block the certification of a state's electoral votes, but those did not involve the creation of an alternate slate of electors.
The one relevant comparison was Hawaii in 1960. UW-Madison Political Science Professor Barry Burden noted, in that case, the contest went to a recount with a margin of less than 200 votes. The results of the recount swung the state from then-Vice President Richard Nixon to John F. Kennedy.
Nixon, himself, accepted and counted the Democratic electors' votes when certifying Kennedy's win in the 1960 contest.
On Friday, Johnson acknowledged there hadn't been widespread Democratic use of fake electors, but he also stood by most of his remarks.
"First of all, what I said was largely true, OK? It was a gotcha question," Johnson said. "I came onto the show to talk about the border and Ukraine funding, and they asked me about this. I was slightly wrong because there have been alternate electors of Democrats."
In Wisconsin, Republican electors gathered at the state Capitol to sign on as Trump electors after a recount upheld President Joe Biden had won the state by more than 20,000 votes.
The electors maintained they were following legal guidance to submit an elector slate in case a legal challenge was successful, but by that day, all of Trump's lawsuits had been rejected. Earlier this month, Wisconsin's fake GOP electors settled a civil lawsuit by, in part, acknowledging their efforts were used to try overturning an election Biden had won.
Burden said neither Hawaii in 1960 nor the actions of some Democratic lawmakers following the 2004 and 2016 elections were comparable to the Republicans efforts to submit fake elector slates in seven states President Joe Biden won in 2020.
"There's really nothing like the efforts of the fake electors in 2020," Burden said. "That was an orchestrated effort across multiple swing states, including Wisconsin, to present false electors on behalf of the party that had lost in every one of those states."
Johnson on Friday maintained there was not a substantial difference between a coordinated, multi-state effort to submit fraudulent elector slates and Democratic objections to some states' electoral votes in past elections.
"My comment was there's all kinds of examples, and Democrats repeatedly have denied the results of elections," Johnson said. "I was slightly wrong that Democrats had repeatedly had alternate slates of electors when I was really, in my mind, on a gotcha question, thinking about and talking about how many Democrats have denied elections."
Burden pointed to the Wisconsin settlement, as well as the ongoing prosecution of fake Trump electors in Georgia and Michigan, as proof Republicans' conduct in 2020 was unprecedented.
"It was a kind of organized scheme that was fairly detached from reality, which was not what happened in Hawaii at all," Burden said. "I think the legal system is proving that those fake electors were doing something inappropriate."
The January 6 House committee investigation revealed Johnson, himself, was involved in attempting to pass fake elector slates to then-Vice President Mike Pence before Congress was to certify the election.
Records showed Johnson connected Trump attorney Jim Troupis to the senator's chief of staff, Sean Riley. Riley then told a Pence staffer he "needed to hand" something to the vice president, and it was an "alternate" slate of electors for Michigan and Wisconsin.
The Pence staffer said he would not accept that.
On Friday, a CBS 58 reporter asked Johnson if, knowing what he does now, whether he still would have connected Troupis with his staff.
"I didn't connect Jim. Jim Troupis called me up, asked if I could help deliver something to the vice president," Johnson said. "That's all I knew. I had no idea."
"My chief of staff spent about an hour contacting people, found out the vice president wasn't accepting anything, and we never delivered them. So, my involvement, literally, my involvement took a few seconds. That's it. My chief of staff, he didn't know what we were being asked to deliver."
The January 6 records indicated Riley did indeed know what he'd been asked to give Pence.