State education officials grilled over handling of grooming investigations

MADISON, Wis. (CBS 58) -- Lawmakers and GOP candidates for governor spent much of Thursday, Oct. 23, taking shots at State Superintendent Jill Underly over how the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction (DPI) handles accusations of educators grooming children.

The hearing stemmed from reporting earlier this month by The Cap Times, a Madison news outlet. The report found DPI staff had investigated more than 200 instances of educators accused of sexual misconduct or grooming between 2018 and 2023.

Republican lawmakers have sounded alarms over the DPI's handling of those cases.

Specifically, they question why educators were allowed to surrender their state licenses in exchange for the investigation ending. They also slammed the agency over its online license database not sharing why an educator's license was either revoked or surrendered.

Underly did not attend Thursday's hearing. A DPI spokesperson said she was attending an out-of-state commitment she'd already planned.

State Rep. Amanda Nedweski (R-Pleasant Prairie), chair of the Assembly Committee on Government Operations, Accountability and Transparency, said Underly was attending an awards ceremony at her alma mater, Indiana University.

During the hearing, there was bipartisan criticism over Underly's absence.

"I'm disappointed Dr. Underly is not here," State Rep. Mike Bare (D-Verona) said. "She should be here. I've conveyed that to her team twice in the last week."

In Underly's place, Deputy State Superintendent Tom McCarthy and the DPI's licensing director, Jennifer Kammerud testified before the committee.

They said the public can access records on sexual misconduct investigations through open records requests. They added it's been hard for the agency to update its online database because the state has cut its budget.

Critics have questioned how DPI manages the money it does receive. In January, CBS 58 obtained an internal DPI memo calling for a pause on all out-of-state travel.

The committee's chair, State Rep. Amanda Nedweski (R-Pleasant Prairie), said she has a background in online databases and found it inexcusable for the DPI to not include the reason an educator no longer has their license.

Nedweski compared the DPI database's lack of specifics with the Department of Safety and Professional Services, which handles licensing for the vast majority of industries across the state.

"It's easier for me, as a member of the public to find out why a cosmetologist lost their license and why is was revoked than it is for me to find out why a teacher license was revoked," Nedweski said.

DPI officials were also questioned about why educators were able to end investigations by surrendering their licenses. The Cap Times story noted eight instances of educator surrendering their license, then later reapplying.

McCarthy said previous DPI leaders allowed for surrender agreements that allowed license holders to reapply, but he maintained that was not happening under Underly.

"Some of those agreements were only for a year or three years or a defined period of time with conditions on that reinstatement or the ability to reapply," McCarthy said. "We don't do that anymore. Dr. Underly does not use that practice."

Need to establish a 'grooming' law?

Kenosha Police Chief Patrick Patton was the only other speaker to tesify Thursday. He called for lawmakers to tighten existing laws around educators and sexual misconduct.

Patton cited a 2024 case his agency investigated. He said police and prosecutors could only land on a disorderly conduct charge because existing laws are specific to educators and students in the same school.

He said another potential loophole is laws specifying an educator's conduct must be of a sexual nature.

"There is no [law against] adult male in a towel [pictures] being sent to a 13-year-old child, and that's their teacher," Patton said. "That's not illegal under [state statute] 948 because it's not totally exposing what's defined as genitalia."

McCarthy also called for more specific legislation on grooming, which triggered a heated back-and-forth with State Rep. Shae Sortwell (R-Two Rivers).

"It would be incredibly helpful for us if we had some sort of statutory definition or terms for grooming," McCarthy said.

While McCarthy said more specific grooming statutes would aid in both criminal and licensing investigations, Nedweski pointed to existing "immoral conduct" laws related to educators.

In the end, the committee voted to ask Attorney General Josh Kaul to weigh in with a legal opinion on whether the immoral conduct statutes already cover grooming.

Candidates for governor sound off

The Republican candidates for governor also jumped in with their thoughts Thursday. Washington County Executive Josh Schoemann called for Underly to resign.

"[DPI] has a history of slow walking public records requests and ignoring the concerns of Wisconsin parents," Schoemann said. "Her cavalier response to this very serious matter is the final straw."

Congressman Tom Tiffany called a press conference outside the state Capitol Thursday afternoon. Tiffany called for accountability, but didn't really offer specifics when asked what accountability looked like in this case.

He said he was not yet calling for Underly's removal. Instead, he demanded Gov. Tony Evers, a former state superintendent, get involved.

"If there's not going to be reform that fixes these problems," Tiffany said. "Then I think it's time for the governor to call on Jill Underly to either do her job or step aside."

Tiffany pledged to offer more detailed licensing information on the DPI's website. The governor doesn't oversee DPI, and Tiffany did not give a clear answer when asked whether he believed the state superintendent should instead serve under the governor.

Democratic gubernatorial candidate Francesca Hong (D-Madison) serves on the committee that held Thursday's hearing. 

"We have to look at what sort of statutes need to change, what definitions need to change, and I'm tired of the finger-pointing and complaining," Hong told reporters as she left the Capitol. "We should be doing more for our kids through legislative action."

Underly to appear at future hearings

Republican lawmakers have called Underly back to the Capitol. Both the Senate Education Committee and Joint Audit Committee have each scheduled hearings to discuss the DPI licensing investigations.

Both hearings are set to take place in about two weeks.

"Dr. Underly takes the responsibility of protecting Wisconsin students seriously," DPI Spokesperson Chris Bucher said in a statement. "She is willing to discuss licensing processes that protect students and to engage in constructive discussions on how to strengthen those protections further.

Bucher told CBS 58 in an email Thursday evening Underly is slated to appear and testify at both hearings in about two weeks.

"Yes," Bucher said when asked if Underly will appear at both hearings. "That is the plan."